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Telekinesis
Topic Started: Jun 4 2009, 04:00 PM (586 Views)
Asche
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Telekinesis as it is now is probably one of the most badly designed spells on the site. It is horribly limiting, stopping people from using it to do things like move a bed, yet is immensely abusable in combat situations that were the main reason that the limit was tacked on. For instance, while it states that it can be used to control objects as large as a longsword, it doesn't state how many, nor does it state the speed at which that longsword can move.

An alternate idea might be to place a "power" limit on the spell, at around 700J of kinetic energy to be distibuted over all effected objects whilst also removing the weight due to gravity and air resistance.

This would allow one to move a typical longsword at a maximum speed of close to 1m/s which seems a reasonable base. It would also allow characters who desire to play mages with a lazy streak, to use it for everyday usage to move things such as a large bed at slow speeds.

It could even be used to have some effect on people, slowing them a little bit. A light unarmed/unarmoured person could be moved at a little less than .5 meters per second, however, they would be able to resist it by moving in the opposite direction that they're being moved. The average walking speed for a person being around 1.3 meters per second, and that's a casual pace at which they could easily have a conversation. The spell could be used to slow someone, or tip them off balance a little, but it's far from the whole issue of throwing people across the room, whereas a heavily armed and armoured warrior would be even less at risk, with a speed of around .35 meters per second. These have all been mundane examples of course, a giant of a person wearing blackrock armour and possessing the strength to use it would be unlikely to be effected at all.

With this implemented, it would allow a greater degree of freedom, whilst simulaniously reducing the degree of godmoding that the spell allows. Yes, they could move a boulder, but it would be so slow that it would hardly do anything. Yes you could move someone, but they'd be more than capable of overpowering your influence, yes you could move ten longswords simultaniously, but they would all be so slow that they could be easily avoided, and would have much less impact than just a single one of them would.

’The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog.’
Edited by Asche, Jun 5 2009, 06:13 PM.
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Nayéla
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And you didn't even provide a formula to calculate the speed an object can move based on the energy required to move something of that mass?

Lazy. :P
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Kael
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Are we asuming that the object is alredy in mortion or is it based from static, as these would be two different things.
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Asche
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These figures are assuming static position. If it was in motion it would simply add another force though.
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BlueDragon
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The limits are, as you said, to avoid abuse in combat. I don't think anyone would mind if you move larger objects out of combat, as long as you're not overdoing it. I wouldn't warn you for it unless you go powertripping throwing houses around or similar.


And if you abuse it in combat, with for example "I shall move this rock, at 10000m/s, straigt through you" it'll only do yourself harm. People won't RP with you, and if it were in a tournament doing things like that would most likely cause you to lose since they're decided by judges and not actual combat outcome.

Basically I'd like to see only one simple limit on the spells: "Use common sense". But since a lot of people seem to lack that, we've got the limitations we have which takes care of most of the problems without people having to calculate powers. (And if we'd be to include air resistance and wind and stuff, people would have to use Mathematica or similar to calculate speeds and trajectories).
Edited by BlueDragon, Jun 4 2009, 08:45 PM.
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Kael
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"And if we'd be to include air resistance and wind and stuff, people would have to use Mathematica or similar to calculate speeds and trajectories"

Well i'm all for that, it'd be fun. Though i think admins having fun with the warn button for a while may be better than lots of restriction.
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Asche
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Quote:
 
Basically I'd like to see only one simple limit on the spells: "Use common sense". But since a lot of people seem to lack that, we've got the limitations we have which takes care of most of the problems without people having to calculate powers.


I thought that common sense was a prerequisite. It's in the rules.
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Nayéla
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I have to agree with Kael. Overpowering spells and god-modding is not an issue that can be solved in freeform text-based roleplay by a few words of limits in a spell or item description. The community ( reporting mis-use ) needs to work with the Admin/Mods ( issuing warnings/suspensions and bans where appropriate ) to eliminate this issue.

If a member of the community thinks something is over-powered or god-modding, they'll report it. Anything else is obviously acceptable ( at least to them ).

Also remember that limiting spells limits the range of characters that can exist. The less vibrant this range, the less draw Avalon has in comparison to other roleplay sites and that draw not only brings new people here, it *holds* people here and it even *makes them come back*.

It is quite annoying when you cannot articulate how you feel about something >.< This post was re-written about 8 times..
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Sir
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I agree with what Nay said: the only way to stop godmodding properly is not to impose limits that stop everyone from being creative, but it's the community's job to stop godmodding. The rules state that godmodding is not allowed, if somebody godmods in your topic, confront them about it if you think they'll listen to you, or report the topic and an Admin/Mod will review the situation and hand out a warning if it's necessary.

Avalon used to do very well with just a handful of spells that had very basic descriptions. That system gave everyone the chance to be versatile; now, by setting limits on everything, we're forcing people, and when people are forced, they push back. In the end we'd end up having to set limits on everything and we would end up destroying the freedom that once characterised Avalon.
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BlueDragon
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Asche
Jun 4 2009, 09:09 PM
I thought that common sense was a prerequisite. It's in the rules.
I know. It there per my request :)
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Denthúl
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Nayéla
Jun 4 2009, 09:39 PM
I have to agree with Kael. Overpowering spells and god-modding is not an issue that can be solved in freeform text-based roleplay by a few words of limits in a spell or item description. The community ( reporting mis-use ) needs to work with the Admin/Mods ( issuing warnings/suspensions and bans where appropriate ) to eliminate this issue.

If a member of the community thinks something is over-powered or god-modding, they'll report it. Anything else is obviously acceptable ( at least to them ).

Also remember that limiting spells limits the range of characters that can exist. The less vibrant this range, the less draw Avalon has in comparison to other roleplay sites and that draw not only brings new people here, it *holds* people here and it even *makes them come back*.

It is quite annoying when you cannot articulate how you feel about something >.< This post was re-written about 8 times..
I agree. I would love for that to happen on Avalon, but it seems that everybody is afraid to mention it unless it's someone that they dislike through fear of upsetting people. If that wasn't the case and more people were willing to speak up, then more freedom would work well. Of course, there will always be someone who has a go at power-playing and/or god-moding, but if more cases were reported and dealt with then there would be less cases in general.

Siry
 
I agree with what Nay said: the only way to stop godmodding properly is not to impose limits that stop everyone from being creative, but it's the community's job to stop godmodding. The rules state that godmodding is not allowed, if somebody godmods in your topic, confront them about it if you think they'll listen to you, or report the topic and an Admin/Mod will review the situation and hand out a warning if it's necessary.

Avalon used to do very well with just a handful of spells that had very basic descriptions. That system gave everyone the chance to be versatile; now, by setting limits on everything, we're forcing people, and when people are forced, they push back. In the end we'd end up having to set limits on everything and we would end up destroying the freedom that once characterised Avalon.


Mm hmm. And I think I'd prefer to see Avalon like that rather than what it is (seemingly) going to become. Like I stated in the staff area, freedom is perhaps the most important aspect of Avalon, so taking more of it away only damages what I always thought this place was supposed to be.

We could always try working in the opposite direction, although it would depend a lot on the members and how willing (or unwilling) they are to report power-playing and godmoding when it happens, as well as using common sense and playing fairly. If it works out, I'd see no reason not to consider some serious alterations. If it doesn't, then I guess we'd end up back here.

:mellow:
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Nayéla
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If needs be, I'll write a script that pulls all posts made in roleplay areas and review them all personally >.<

<.< >.>

Which would probably happen anyway for another project I have in mind :P
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Denthúl
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Nayéla
Jun 5 2009, 03:37 AM
If needs be, I'll write a script that pulls all posts made in roleplay areas and review them all personally >.<

<.< >.>

Which would probably happen anyway for another project I have in mind :P
But then wouldn't you lose all the time to enjoy the free roleplaying? :P

It's something that could (would) always be monitored at first. But it would be better if people actually reported these things when they happened. :)
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Nayéla
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Actually, reading a lot of other roleplays could actually inspire my own muse >.<
So it could actually have 3 benefits! :P

Besides, I'd sacrifice my own chance to roleplay to give everyone else freedom.
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Renegade
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Asche
Jun 4 2009, 09:09 PM
Quote:
 
Basically I'd like to see only one simple limit on the spells: "Use common sense". But since a lot of people seem to lack that, we've got the limitations we have which takes care of most of the problems without people having to calculate powers.


I thought that common sense was a prerequisite. It's in the rules.
Just because it is in the rules does not mean everyone follows it. ><
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